An interview with
Stan Bernard
You can also watch this interview on my YouTube channel
*PS. Below you will find an auto-generated transcript of this episode.
Arek Dvornechuck:
What's up branding experts? Arek here at Ebaqdesign and welcome to On Branding Podcast. And today my guest is Stan Bernard, and Stan is an internationally recognized award-winning global competition consultant. So, Stan is the president of Bernard Associates, LLC, and the creator of the Transcender System. And Dr. Bernard is also a former senior fellow at the warton school of business. And he had been a consultant to leading businesses around the world for nearly four decades working with more than 150 companies across six continents. And Stan is also a keynote speaker in a published author. And so he author the book Brands Don't Win. And this is the book we are going to talk about today. Hello, Stan. Thanks for joining us on today's podcast.
Stan Bernard:
Thank you, Arek. It's a pleasure to be here.
Arek Dvornechuck:
Thank you. So, um, basically, the premise of the book from my understanding is that certain successful companies use quite a different approach than regular companies, right? So basically you analyze bigger brands like Apple, Starbucks, or Peloton, and explain to us why is that they were able to change the game and they don't play the same game of brand differentiation like most companies do, right. But rather they play their own game and they're able to rise above the competition, which you compare a lot, uh, to how politicians around their elections. Right. So, these successful companies, you call them transcenders and, uh, regular ones, we call them traditionalist. So, I thought we could just start this podcast with explaining to our listeners this terminology. Right. So what is, what does it mean traditionalist versus transcender? So in the first part, part of your book, you talk about things like, you know, traditionalists use approach based on products, select versus transcender use approach based on product election. So I thought we could just start by, you know, with explaining some of those key differences. So what are some of the key differences, uh, between those two approaches traditionalist versus transcender approach? Yeah.
Stan Bernard:
Great, great question. And an excellent summary of, so it's a pleasure to be talking to you and your listeners. I think most, everybody knows that, uh, the vast majority of the companies in the world, no matter whether they're offering services, technologies, products, whatever it may be, they basically all play the same game, which is a branding game. Okay. Effectively companies try to create a brand and then differentiate the brand, usually with lots of advertising, promotions, sales reps, et cetera. Right? And that game is actually an ancient game. Branding's been around in this format for over 3000 years. I mean, ancient Greeks use this in their marketplaces. They would basically put in Gras they're engravings or their brand on pottery and other goods to differentiate their product versus another Greek artesian. Okay. So that that's been around for 3000 years and, and everybody pretty much plays that game. Okay. Well, there's some exceptions to that. And what I have found over the last four decades is that actually some of the most successful companies in the world do not play that traditionalist game of branding. They don't create a brand and then try to differentiate it with lots of advertising promotion. No, they actually play their own game. They create and play a game only they can win. Okay. For example, Starbucks, everybody assumes that Starbucks wins with branding, cuz everybody knows the Starbucks brand. Right. We all know the logo. We know the coffee cups, et cetera. Yeah. Well, in fact, Starbucks tried to win with Brandy, the traditionalist system. As I refer to it that most everybody knows. Um, for the first 16 year, years, first 16 years that Starbucks was around. They basically had the Starbucks brand name, logo, cups, and coffee. Okay. And they were only adding one store per year. Okay. So they were not winning at that point. 1987, Charles Schultz buys the company and basically says, we're not gonna play the brand game. We're the create own game. We are gonna make Starbucks. The third place. We're gonna make Starbucks. The third place, three words between home and work in America. He changed the game. It wasn't about branding the coffee or differentiating the coffee. It was all about winning with the coffee shop. He basically then made sure that there was a Starbucks on one side of the highway on the way to work and directly on the other side of the highway, on the way home from work, he made sure that Starbucks were in strategic locations, transportation, hubs, corporate hubs malls, et cetera. Okay. And he not only that, not only are they strategically located, but they were larger than any other stores because he did not want, want you to grab a cup of coffee, like Dunkin donuts. He wanted you to grab a chair, hang out, stay with us at Starbucks, listen to our nice music. See our baristas are very welcoming. You'll have plenty of space. We'll make it a comfortable chair, even a couch. Right, right. When he did that, when he changed the game, that's what I refer to as change in the game or change in the agenda. And I'll talk about what I mean by a campaign agenda. In a second, we change the game from the coffee to the coffee shop and in, so doing over the next 20 years, Starbucks went from adding one store per year to adding 1,350 stores per year. That's almost four stores a day. Okay. They became the number one best selling coffee shop in the world with over 31 shops, across 80 countries. And many people don't even consider them to have the best coffee. Okay. Because he changed the game and he won by playing his own game. Three words. That's what I refer to as a campaign agenda. The third place, because Starbucks had tried to win with Brandy and had failed. Okay. Now lemme explain what I mean by the agenda because Starbucks, Amazon Peloton, and many of these companies, both large and small, no matter what types of products, technologies, or services they offer, they use a political playbook. Transcender companies rise above their competitors by using a political playbook, not a product playbook. So you, you ask that question, let me explain it right. Traditionalist we, we lead with the brand right. Company basically says it's all about the brand. They put that force first. It's almost like it's the lead actor, the brand in the transcender world. We don't lead with the brand. We actually lead with a campaign agenda in follow with the brand very much like policy. So for instance, 2008, when president to be Obama is running for president of the United States. He basically had a one word campaign agenda change, change, change, change. He could have led with vote Obama. He didn't, he led with change, change, change, change. So if you in change in 2008, he, the brand Obama was the change candidate. So he led with his agenda very much like politicians, they have a campaign agenda and then they lead lead with the agenda follow with the brand Trump, everybody knows 2016. He could have said vote Trump. He could have said vote. Trump vote. Trump wrote Trump. He did. He said, make America great again, make America great again, make America great. Again. He led with his campaign agenda and followed with the brand, which was Trump himself. Okay. Yeah. This is what the best companies in the world do. The leading companies from Google, Tesla, apple, Amazon, as well as startup companies like C smaller companies like sweet green halo, top ice cream, et cetera. These companies have figured out that branding's not the only way to compete. In fact, it's not even the best way to compete. The best way to compete is to use the transcender system outlined in the book in three steps to basically create and play a game only you can win.
Arek Dvornechuck:
Right. And, uh, and just for our listeners, uh, here is a great illustration of those differences. I'm sure you focus on this. Okay. So some of my key takeaways from this part was that traditionalist system is playing the game of differentiation. As you said, you know, regular companies, they put brand fur and they take more of evolutionary approach or small changes. And they present kind of a military campaign style when they push their communication. And they rely on four PS that you know, that well known in marketing world. And the goal is to sell the product right versus, um, transcend system. As you just described, you lead with the agenda and then the brand follows and it's more of a revolutionary approach and you compare it to, it's more of a, like an election campaign, right? Mm-hmm and uh, here you develop this four a, which we're gonna talk about in a second, but the goal would be to, you know, to have transcendent experience versus just sell a product. Right. I think, yeah. I
Stan Bernard:
Think that's a really important one. Arek, is that in the traditionalist brand system, it was all about selling customers in a transcender world. We're not trying to sell, we're trying to, okay. We wanna inspire people with a transcendent type of experience as opposed to sell them on our products, features and benefits. Okay. Mm-hmm, this is very much like politicians, people don't vote for politicians because what they're selling, they vote for those politicians because they believe the, they can inspire them. They believe they can make their life or their experience better. Right. That's what these transcender companies do. That's what Apple's trying to do. That's what Tesla's trying to do. Okay. Right. Give you a transcendent experience by driving a Tesla type of car that will ultimately lead to sustainable energy. Right.
Arek Dvornechuck:
So is be beyond just the product, right. It's about something much, much bigger. Okay. So, um, since our listeners, uh, we have like an, you gave us a big picture. Overview of what's the difference. Now I just wanted to spend, uh, a few minutes talking about those three steps. As you just mentioned, there are three steps that you distinguish. So there are three steps to file. First you create the agenda, then you communicate the agenda and then you champion the agenda, right? Yes. So let's spend a few minutes talking about each step. So starting with creating the agenda. So what's the process of creating an agenda and perhaps you can give us some examples.
Stan Bernard:
Yes. Excellent. So there are three steps, as you said, in transit in system, the first in order to change the game or play game is to create the agenda. OK. In the book I say there's three different types of ways for creating an agenda. OK. Mm-hmm perhaps the most common one is competitive categorization. Okay. So a company can either create a new category where they can own an existing category. So for instance, seed L is a small startup in the UK that basically created the first non-alcoholic distilled spirits. Okay. That was their agenda, distilled non-alcoholic spirits. Okay. Because their founder, Ben Branson basically have been trying to find a decent mocktail in a, on a Saturday night in London, couldn't find it. He basically said, I have a background in farming. Also have an agency background, advertise an agency background. I'm gonna basically go and create this whole new category of non alcohol experience. See became not only the first, but the biggest in the world, they owned 70% market share. And after only five years, they basically bought by Diageo. Okay. Which is the world's biggest spirits maker. Uh, many people know them for smart offs and Guinness and others. So, so they were extremely successful by playing their own game, creating their own category. Another company is Uber. Everybody knows Uber. Yeah. Most people assume Uber created ride sharing. Well, of course it didn't ride sharing actually started back in 16, 16 hundreds when we actually had people in carriages and horses that were sharing the rides, but, but they weren't even the first in the ride hailing business, the more modern use of an app to call a car. Actually there were other companies, most notably sidecar that actually had the patent seven years before Uber even came into existence. So they were not the first, but Uber quickly realized the potential of ride sharing category and basically owned. They got the most funding. They had the most drivers and ultimately they had ultimately the best technology, the best financially supported company and only ultimately owned it. So that's a example of competitive categorization. Mm-hmm another example is competitive creation. Okay. So I just actually talked about Starbucks, Starbucks, totally. That concept of the third place nobody had ever heard of that. So that is an example of totally coming up with a new concept, which is the second way to create an agenda competitive creation. The third way is competitive recreation. So a company that recreates an existing type of product. So everybody, for instance, apple didn't create the cell phone, but they recreated the cell phone with the iPhone. Perhaps a better example even is with Peloton Peloton basically tried to and effectively recreated the cycling fitness studio for the home. Their agenda was a world-class home cycling studio that was their agenda. And they basically took the best parts, the cycling studio. So they took the bike and they made the bike better. Mm-hmm they took the instructors and had better instructors. Right. They took the convenience, put it in your home. So it was very convenient. And then they also took the social aspects. You could actually ride with others race with others, et cetera, cetera. So, so they basically recreated the cycling studio fitness experience for the home. So that is called competitive recreation. So those are the three different ways that companies can do that to basically change the game.
Arek Dvornechuck:
Right. Okay. So just some of summary for our listeners, there are three ways in which you can create the agenda. First one would be competitive creation. So when you create a new space, so for example, IPO and iTunes, as an example from your book, they were different in the sense that they advertise IPO and iTunes as thousand songs in your pocket, which
Stan Bernard:
IPad like the iPad device. Yep.
Arek Dvornechuck:
Right. And no one ever has done that before and really directly speaks to customers. Right. Other competitors, they used to advertise in terms of, you know, like how many gigabytes, but it's not really understandable. So that's difference. The second way to create an agenda is competitive recreation. So recreating an existing product. Um, like you mentioned with iPhone, for example, they re invited the cell phone industry. There were different, you know, different brands, so many different smartphones, but, uh, when they entered the market and iPhone was like, nothing else people have seen before. And another example is pone, right. And a third way to create an agenda would be competitive categorization. So owning a new category, right? Like Uber, for example, like you just mentioned, they didn't invent the right sharing category, but ultimately they were able to own it. And nowadays people even use it as a brand right. Mm-hmm their brand name. So it's so powerful. Yes. So now let's spend some time talking about how to actually communicate that agenda. So once we figure out, you know, we can use some of those ways to create the agenda. So now then what we do once we have the agenda, how we can communicate the agenda. So what are some of the ways to communicate that to the outside world? And again, maybe you can give, give us some examples so we can all relate to that. Absolutely.
Stan Bernard:
So communicating agenda, the second step in the T center system, I basically put in the book, the four criteria for how to communicate an agenda. I use the acronym MOA, M O A. It stands for memorable ownable, winnable, and alignable. So every agenda should be communicated first and foremost in a memorable way. Now I go into the book in detail. The fact that's one of the most important things you can do in terms of making an agenda memorable is to make it short, simple. Mm-hmm, literally five words or less. Now the reason that transcend inter companies, as well as politicians use a campaign agenda as five words of fewer is because that's all we can remember. Yeah. It turns out we used to be able to remember as many as seven plus or minus two chunks of information or digits in our short term memory over the last 20 years cause of our iPhone devices and other devices, we don't have to remember a lot numbers. And as a result, we now have lost 43% of our short term memory. So if you want people to remember your agenda and most importantly, repeat it to others, cause that's really, the goal of transcends is not just for you to remember it, but for you to also repeat it to others, then it has to get in the long term memory to get in long term memory. It has to be five words or fewer. Okay. Mm-hmm second. It needs to be distinct. Okay. The third place is distinct. Okay. Very unique. Okay. So it has to be distinct. It also has to be easily repeated. So you've repeated over and over again. Okay. Cause that's what you want people doing. And it also has to be visual. Okay. Because, so this is where branding supports the transcend system. It doesn't lead. It's not the lead actor. Branding is a supporting actor. So branding such as logos and other graphics, right? Mm-hmm are very important for supporting the memory or the basically memorability of your agenda. So I'll give you an example. Uh, perhaps the best is Geico. Geico has a forward word agenda, 15 minutes, 15%, 15 minutes, 15%. Everybody knows that everybody knows that 15 minutes can save you 15% of long car insurance. Why do you know that? Because Geico's been telling us that exact same forward agenda now for 23 years, starting in 99. Okay. They basically said it and they broke every advertising rule. Okay. They, they basically have numerous different types of characters. Most companies only have one mascot or one character. They basically run multiple different types of commercials, different themes, everything from, you know, pig to caveman, to celebrities, to the get go, et cetera. So they didn't follow any of the rules. They broke all the rules of advertising in, uh, traditional advertising. Right. But they got us to remember four words, 15 minutes, 15%. They lead with that. And then they follow with the brand name, which is Geico. Okay. In fact, they just had a commercial in October of last year where the, the get go basically explained how he came up with his forward campaign agenda. Right. And so of course we all know it's so easy. A CA man can do it. Right? So that's an example of memorable ownable. I'd say, you know, in terms of owning sweet green, many people know of sweet green is a solid store, but basically sweet green really is all about doing one thing. And that's connecting people to real food that is their five word connecting people to real food. And they own it because they bet and check out the local farmers near their stores. And in some of the stores, they can literally trace electronically dig where the vegetable and your salad came from, what farm. Okay. And they, they connect you to real food also cause they give you tremendous access. And we'll talk more about the four A's in a second, but they give you access to their food. You don't necessarily have to go to sweet greens to get their food. Not only will they deliver it, but they have outposts. So called outposts that they put for instance, in corporate facilities. So they've done a lot of things to really, really basically have an ownable agenda. Yeah. Third is winnable to me. Nike, Nike has won with their agenda, which everybody knows three words. Just do it. A lot of people don't know that Nike actually was losing market shares significantly to Reebok. In 19 87, 19 87, Reebok had 45% north American market share of the sports apparel and shooting market. Nike only had 18%. They were losing badly. The team got together and said, we got to change the game. We can't keep doing this branding game. Rebox the hot brand. We can't play the brand game. We're gonna change the game. They change the game with three words, just do it. The idea was you don't have to be an athlete to get out there and just do it. Whatever it is, walk on the sidewalk, run a marathon. If you're an 80 year old, play a rack sport. If you're a young woman, whatever it is, just do it. Nike, meaning anybody can get up, get in our clothes and just do some sort of exercise. When they did that, they dramatically changed their sales trajectory market share. They raced past Reebok and they are and have been for years the dominant player, the sports apparel market. So that is truly a winnable agenda. You can go on Google and there's over 366 million <laugh> hits on Google for just do it in Nike. Lastly is, and it's MOA is Alignable. The idea is you want everybody to be able to align to the agenda. Perhaps the best example of that is Amazon. Everybody at Amazon knows their two agenda, customer obsession, customer obsession, customer obsession, jet Bezos has never, ever said we win because of our branding. You don't even see the name Amazon on the side of the trucks that they're delivering your packages from Amazon. Right? Cause they don't win with branding. It's not a branding game that Amazon's playing. They never have. Jeff Bezos from now said has played a single game called customer obsession. They are the most customer obsessed retailer in the world, which is why they're the number one retailer in terms of value in the world. Okay. So the nice thing is everybody from Jeff Bezos down to the person, delivering your packages, knows it's all of about the customer. It's all about the customers, customer obsession. We're not talking about customer centricity. You know, customer focus, no Amazon, everything they do is about the customer at their board meetings. They have an empty seat. They leave that represents the customer, okay. Their number one leadership on their website, customer obsession, everything they do, including 80% of their metrics. 80% of the way their measure is customer metrics. It's not focused just on sales. Okay. So those are the four different ways or criteria for basically communicating the agenda, the second step of the transgender system.
Arek Dvornechuck:
Right. And I just wanted to show to our listeners, uh, it was a nice graphic that illustrates your system or just had it opened right here. Just wanted to show our listeners here, for example, where we have this triangle that illustrates those three steps and those, you know, steps inside each step. Right. So, or features like you just mentioned criteria, right? Like, um, more memorable, honorable winnable. And Alignable so again, just to sum up for our listeners, it needs to be your agenda. When you communicate the agenda, when you come up with, um, those phrases and those key words that you are going to communicate, it needs to be five words or less preferably just because it, this way it needs to be easy to remember and repeat so people can repeat it to others. Right. So it can be catchy and then you use it consistently. Right? So, and then you can use visuals to support that, right? Like logos and graphics and symbols. And the second criteria was ownable. You need to believe in it and act on it. Right. And I think it's great. You mentioned in your book that a lot of companies, they just put some mission statement up on their website and they call it a day. But it's actually about being on a mission, like you just said, mentioned, uh, sweet greens, for example. Right? So their mission statement is connecting people to Rio food and they actually, you do this in every aspect of you know, of their business, right? So the next criteria would be winnable. So, uh, here you talk about that. For example, you, you gave us example in, in the book that you don't ask the market, what they need, you tell them the market, what to think and what to do. Yes. And leaders and politicians do that all the time. Right? Right. So a great example here is just do it, which is so powerful, memorable race. And as you just were describing, you don't have to be an athlete. You can just do it. Right. And the last criteria would be alignable. So everything must align with the agenda. And a great example, as you mentioned will be Amazon's, you know, customer obsession. So they do everything. It's all about customer obsession, all the metrics, all the communication strategies, activities, everything they do is they're focused on the customer. Right. That's right. So this is the second step. And the third step in your process, uh, will be to check on that agenda. Right? So, um, now marketers are family that with the four piece technique, which stands for, for people who don't know, it stands for productized place and promotion is, is, is a popular marketing framework. Uh, but you introduce us to four, a technique. So I wanted you to talk a bit about that, which stands for access advantages, a LIC cows, if I pronounce it right. And awareness. So can you explain on that third step? And um, so how to champion that agenda, what those four A's actually stand for?
Stan Bernard:
Yes. So as you said in the traditionalist branding system, we had the four PS that you mentioned. I basically over the past, uh, several decades developed the four a system. So this is how you champion the agenda. You've already created it. You've communicated now, how do you execute it? How do you champion it? What you do with the four A's and the first a is access. The second a is advantages. Third is ad evangelicals. It's a P toe that I created. Uh, yeah. Two words I put together and awareness. So let's talk about an ax. Um, when I think about access, the, the company that comes to mind first is Google Google's mission is basically access to the world's information. Five words. That's what Google's all about. Mm-hmm Google did not even start to be start out as a company. I mean, every most people know Sege BRN and Larry Page, the two co-founders are really just trying to find a better way to manage the information and access the information on the web. So they created obviously their Google system, uh, technology and their mission was access to the world's information, no company in history, arguably has ever given us as much access to information as Google. And, and what TERs do. They either give you a, a lot of access such as Google, or they might give you limited access, such as Zara fashions. Zara is a store that basically has offers over 10,000 different items, new fashions in their stores every year, which is dramatically about at least four to five times more than anybody else in the industry. But they only offer those for limited amount of time. So they have lots of access to different types of fashions, but very short periods of time to two or three weeks it's out of the store. So you better buy now. So those are both the limited and unlimited access. Okay? So that's the access piece advantages to me, Tesla, Tesla offers so many advantages in their cars, in their mission, by the way. And they are on a mission. It's not enough just to have a mission statement. Every company has a mission statement, Tesla and these other transcends are on a mission. So what is their mission? Their mission's all about transition to sustainable energy. Okay. That is when Alon Musk has preached for years and they have so many advantages in their cars that I literally call on the S advantages. Okay. To help me remember. Cause there's so many. So for instance, first of all, these products are saving. They're saving gasoline, they're saving the world, et cetera. We know that. So there's also cost savings. Their electric vehicles actually are, are less expensive. Particularly their lower end models are less expensive than the average electric vehicle in the United States. They have all sorts of other types of S features. They're safety. They're 2018 model S was considered the safest car mass market car ever developed. You have their charging stations, the stations that are accessed the sales model, again, another S the sales model. You don't necessarily even have to ever see a Tesla. You can literally buy Tesla in less than five minutes on the web, how different, right on and on and on. Right? So all, all these advantages that these, that Tesla offers that I call the S advantages in the case of Tesla. So that's the advantages piece. The next is ad evangelicals. And, uh, I love this concept, um, quite frankly, because you see this with so many companies Peloton, if anybody, you talk to anybody that has a Peloton, they will basically go on and on and on about how great the experience is. Right. And, and they're not working for the company, but they are what I call passionate. Proselytizers they go way beyond the product advocates that we have typically in the traditional branding world. Yeah. Product advocates, they'll say, yeah, I, I like this product. I, you know, I think it'd be a good product. They might write a nice review, not ad evangelicals. Evangelicals are gonna tell you on and on and on about how they much, they love their particular product. You know, certainly Peloton with the PE verse as they call it. But then you have other companies and, and think of something like, let me shine. Let me shine is a small 28 person company based outta Austin, Texas. OK. Mm-hmm now let me shine offers. Non-toxic Citrix acid based detergents and other cleaning products. So basically better for you household products. Okay. And they basically talk, their agenda is clean, free, clean, clean, free, clean. The idea is they found out that about 10% of people that clean dishes are fastidious. Some people might say they're obsessed with compulsive washers. Okay. But they all buy into this concept of clean, free, clean. So they focused on that group and got that to basically tell other people about how great their dishwashing detergent was. I mean, it's one thing to save the world. Like Tesla is sustainable energy mm-hmm, but to get people excited about a dishwashing detergent, well, that's exactly what letmeshine did. They have a clean, free, clean club okay. That people to, and they basically make sure that these particular members of their club get their samples first, get the information first, get all these different discounts so that they then go and tell other people who probably are not quite as interested quite frankly, and how their dishes are clean about how great let Shine's products are. So they have all this consumer generated content on the web that are very high ratings for their basically their dishwash detergent. So that's, you know, that's going way, way beyond with an evangelical. And then last is awareness. Awareness can be two types. It can be. And I refer to it sort of as either big buzz or BBU BBU is sort of constant, you know, that you hear. So for instance, Donald Trump had BBU. The idea was he was constantly on Twitter and other media, social media platforms. You were always hearing him. He basically had at one point 50 times, the mention of Hillary Clinton, he owned the airwaves. Well, there are companies that do that such as halo, top halo, top ice cream basically used, uh, this idea of awareness and their, by the way, their agenda for halo top is guilt, free ice cream, guilt, free ice cream, great concept, right? Yeah. You can eat the whole, he, you don't need to feel guilty. Right. Right. And so they sense both real and virtual samples to many, many different fitness fanatics, uh, health gurus, health advocates, et cetera. And so they built up this base of evangelicals who created awareness by talking about halo, top ice cream. In fact, they even had one GQ reporter who only ate hello, top ice cream for a month. And they lost 10, you know, 10 pounds and he talked about it. And so that was great. That's what I call B awareness B buzz awareness. Then there's big buzz. And to me it example big buzz is certainly in politics. We know the national conventions, Republican or democratic national conventions are big buzz, but Carrie hammer is a young entrepreneur, a woman who basically started Henry hammer fashion. And in order to create big buzz, she changed the game in fashion runways. She had started me in 2012, but her company took off in 2014 when she basically featured the first wheelchair bound woman on the runway at the New York fashion council runway, never before had there been a woman in a wheelchair, Danielle PE, she was a very noted psychotherapist and psychology who basically, you know, she was not the typical runway model. Now, Carrie hammer had realized that when she put her clothes, which were really professional clothes on these very thin young models, something wasn't right. And she had the aha moment. She said, I need role models, not one way models, five words, role models, not runway models. That was her agenda. After that, she put the first woman who basically had four amputated limbs, a quadri quadri amputee on runway, Karen Krespin and others. And so she really broke through with a tremendous amount of buzz. She actually got a billion impressions, a billion impressions, Fox news called it a runway revolution. And so that's an example of big buzz. So those are the four different steps of championing the agenda. Again, basically access, advantages, evangelicals, and awareness and awareness.
Arek Dvornechuck:
And I love the examples that we gave us. So some of the really big that we can all relate to, but as you explain, with those smaller brands, it, you know, this system can be applied to any kind of brand, right? Despite the category, whether it is B2C or B2B, or it's a big company, or it's a small business, as you mentioned, right.
Stan Bernard:
Actually, Arek, that's a really important point. Any type of product, product, service technology, any type of market. I've done this everywhere from Russia to South Africa, Australia, China, you name it. Okay. Any type or size of company. Okay. Doesn't matter if you're a top Amazon apple type company or a small startup, like, um, having the book, several startups and it's in the industry. So this works across all these different platforms, products and places.
Arek Dvornechuck:
Yeah. Great observation. And I haven't seen anything like that before, so I really recommend you guys to check out the book. There is a lot of examples you really analyze and give us a lot of examples so we can all understand the concept behind it. Right. Uh, this book is just filled with great example. We just scratch the surface, basically giving you guys some, some of these examples, so we can understand this on a high level or what it actually means. What does transgender system stand for? But if you wanna let more check out the book I'm going to will include the link in the description. So as we are approaching the end of our interview, I just wanted to ask you, uh, you know, what's the best way to get in touch with you, uh, or learn from you, perhaps your website or social media handles.
Stan Bernard:
Yes. So I would refer people to the website brandsdontwin.com where you can download a chapter. You can basically take the quiz, the transcender versus traditionalist quiz. And I guess probably the one remaining point I would make is if you want to compete, you just wanna compete then brand. But if you wanna win, then transcend use the transcender system.
Arek Dvornechuck:
That's a great way to wrap this up. So I'm going include the link description and visit Stan's website brandsdontwin.com and of course, check out the book if you wanna learn more. Thank you, Stan. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this podcast.
Stan Bernard:
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure.
Arek Dvornechuck:
Thank you. I appreciate that. Bye.
